Rules vs. Role Playing

So once again we stall a game over rules instead of just role playing out a scenario. In this write up I want to address both the ability to identify magical items found and how wish is handled. (Possibly touch on power building)

When done reading, come back to this. . .

To do this we can look at rules as printed and try to interrupt them with their contradictions, grey areas and what others on official forms think they mean. We can look at how other groups handle these issues, what they do and look back to our own history on how they were handled in other rule sets as well as why they are important to the integrity of role playing as whole.

The purpose is to satisfy the player out of game while not breaking the immersion of role playing in game by using terms that are meant to be taken out of game. 

Putting identify in the hands of a major NPC helps to fill a role as a reliable source of information for the PC’s and a useful tool for the DM for passing information and quests as well. This NPC would become more and more known to the PC’s making them seem almost real or like an old friend. Heading back to town with a bag full of unknown loot the PC’s would talk about wanting to visit this NPC to get their items both identified and to have them research the items so when they are ready for pick up they get both the joy of what they’ve discovered as well as possibly an interesting story about an item or two that may lead to further quests or investigation. 

Now our game feels more immersive, more real, like role playing. We have NPC’s who we are interested in on a personal level (their day, their issues, what they are up to), we have a reason to haul all that loot back to town, and we have the joy of discovery when we find out what it really is in town where it can be sold, stored or equipped. 

But we forgot, what if we have a mage ourselves. Back in 3.0 or 3.5 we used to visit our house for some downtime. This downtime was again used for the mage to be studding the items after purchasing the needed pearl dust to identify a set number or items over the course of eight hours. That’s what these studied old mages do, they hold up in their workshops and study magic! 

So far we’ve talked a bit about why it’s important for identify to remain in the hands of NPC’s and also why it works as the perfect role for the mage during their downtime. 

Quick examples of NPC's. For UPM Gaming it's always been Morgan. Morgan was there at the start of the game some 14 years ago known as the mage who lived in a large black stone tower on the side of the city where the merchants were. She had an adopted young apprentice who helped with the studding as needed and a counter for purchasing limited magical trinkets. 

The PC's visited Morgan on many occasions over the years and followed her one some adventures as well as rescued her from another plane and had a story arc about saving her apprentice Charlotte from The Shadow Queen. Morgan always identified the magical items for the PC's as well as was the only one who could study and research artifacts for the party. She required a pearl of at least 100gp and could identify a number of items up to her level over the course of 8 hours which sometimes required more visits.    

We followed the adventures of Morgan even when the PC's went 16 years into the future after battling the king lich in his floating fortress and found her later as a grown woman who had retired. As such with her family we learned that each apprentice was required to also see a new apprentice upon becoming a master and of age. This lead to Morgan's apprentice Charlotte becoming a master and having an adopted apprentice of her own. 

Fast forward from 535cy to 571cy and we find a new historian mage named "Mercedes" a descendant of the house of Morgan. She is the fourth master who's come of age and claiming the mages tower as her own. She is now in need of her own apprentice (which is being worked into 5th edition d&d and started on the plane of the Fey Wild as the PC's see a painting of Mercedes after visiting her to get information on a mysterious cult that worships an egg found below a mansion.)

This is our campaign's legacy.

 

Let's jump over to something famous, from California and visit a man called "Gilmore".

If you don't know the long running major NPC who sells the PC's magical items and identifies their gear and helps them is named Gilmore and he is far more than just a random NPC he is also their friend, who they visit from time to time. They go on quests which he play's a major role and acts as an ear for downtime heavy hearted drama from the PC's. If the PC's could just roll a dice and get all their answers we would never have met the inspirational and charismatic man.

The NPC is so well known he has spawned T-shirts, dice boxes, etc all named after him and his famous shop known as "Gilmore's Glorious Goods". I won't list his entire history, but it is safe to say the DM is using Gilmore in the same way that I used Morgan. 

The story is so much richer when characters are brought to life and intertwined in the PC's story. The PC's we must remember are not in a black box isolated by rules, but rather in a living, breathing world. If there were no one to interact with the world would be flat and dull, unbelievable and fake. It would be like playing a game by the rules like Monopoly where there is no room for storytelling or imagination. At this point why would you not just play alone on your computer? 

Well I have now shown you two major NPC's who would not have existed if it were just a roll in a book to uncover the secrets of magic rather than a social interaction between PC and NPC. But let's get to some rules comparison's between rule set's and see how this evolved and came to be different from 3.0 to Pathfinder. 

Back in the days of 3.0 it was pretty simple. Get a pearl worth 100g, smash it up into dust, mix a cocktail and identify a number of items up to your level. Of course this only got you some of the abilities and the command words. For higher and more thorough inspection you needed a 6th level spell "Analyze Dweomer" this allowed you to get more abilities out of an item, but still not an artifact and still required 8 hours, a gemstone worth 1,500gp and targeted one object. This was why it was best left to an NPC to do items over time. 

Jumping forward to 3.5 we see a major change! As I open my book to page 243. I see identify now takes one hour and can only be used on one item. It still needs that 100gp pearl powder making it now way more expensive, as before you could do multiple items for that price. So for comparison we now see analyze dweomer does a number of objects (not just one anymore) per level and still has that 1,500 gemstone cost.

This is quite the difference and cost! It still hasn't eliminated Morgan, choosing to take the rules over the person, but it has made the PC able to identify something quicker. I believe that back in the day we even chose to keep the 3.0 version due to the taking 8 hours make more sense for something to be fully researched. 

Now we chose to jump to the final incarnation of the 3.0 rule set, Pathfinder. Here is where it gets even more bizarre. In an attempt to combine multiple skills into one James Jacobs (Author of the Pathfinder Core rules) explains that spellcraft was meant to answer questions based on crafting and knowledge was meant to answer questions based on magical theory (how things work).

The mass posts on the forums indicate that the community is quite confused on just why there are skills and spells used in combination for the purpose of identifying items. Here below is just one such example.

There are many posts, but this one shows some of the confusion players in the community are finding when trying to interpret James's rules. What was meant by the designer to be an easier solution has escalated into a math problem.  

Wow! Really, we need to do all this during the adventure to tell what a +1 sword is. Hmm I am sensing that something is a bit off here, but let's continue down this thread.

Now were not even getting command words, charges, and curses! What a headache, no wonder there are so many threads on this simple thing, but wait . . . where is our beloved NPC in all of this? When the calculators, books and push pins with thread come out to join one skill to one spell to one other spell who are we talking to? What size is the room were standing in? What is the weather like? Hmmm I think we just lost our immersion, our role playing, unless of course we are role playing reading a rule book and solving math problems.

Now I present another post to spin our world back. James Jacobs back in 2009 said it worked well to use the two skills and tie in the magic and in 2012 he says . . . 

The post is too large for the blog, so zooming in by clicking the photo may help. Here is the key words to this. "There's already a mechanic in the game for knowing about magic items - Spellcraft. I know that skill says you have to have detect magic going to identiy an item, but I personally feel that's a remnant from an earlier design philosophy that we should have dumped. The mystery of identifying magic items is relatively abandoned in modern gaming."

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS???

What the fuck . . . wait, what? 1. The rules say this but I feel fuck that. 2. The mystery (unknown ancient magical powers that you unlock and are wowed by) are not needed in today's gaming? So just give the player the stats and move on? 3. Remnant from an earlier design philosophy? When he says back in 2008 "I think the solution works out pretty good", when talking about using both detect magic, and knowledge skills?

 

 Here are some follow up posts from that thread.

This post is close to home, it talks about a player who has no knowledge of any of the past but simply put skill ranks into spellcraft because James Jacobs told him if you do, you simply identify magical items. However this post goes on to contradict it's self by saying okay add in a knowledge check cause if you don't the PC's will miss out on crucial story info. Well no shit dummy, if you use a check to unlock the unnecessary mystery you dumped you stats not story. Now if your a rules guy, at this point you are like "Ha see, the skill makes me win." 

But sadly then you see this . . . (*massive content reply removed to get to his words*)

 "One of my big hopes for a new edition would be to build the game to start to give the power back to the GM, to allow the GM to be able to make rules adjudication without the players using the core rules as a bludgeon to argue with. I love how the d20 system has rules for so much you might want to accomplish in the game, but hate how people get obsessed with adhering exactly to the rules, because it starts to ruin the game designer's ability to present a fun adventure or encounter if every single word needs to have only one specific definition."

So you wrote your rules, then decided they were not working in the modern gaming world, then took the role playing out of role playing, and now are mad that modern gamers who play but the rules only want to adhere to those rules? What a fucking joke, you did it to yourself. 

Wow that was quite the interesting time and I only did a small search on James Jacobs and identify. There are many, many more! So what did I learn from all that personally? The role playing is missing dammit, the NPC's are gone, the world is gone, it's Magic The Gathering with it's specific rules! This card does this period. No goddammit, this is d&d, it's fucking role-playing.

So let's back up to where we were to post about how Pathfinder handled identifying a magic item as it was back when it was released. (As a side note, here is a good article about how stupid another GM finds it: http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/10/08/identifying-magic-items-in-pathfinder/)

It's posted above but let's do it again from the massive reddit post. 

Got that? Having fun yet? Do you feel immersed in a fantasy world with the wind in your hair? No? Me either. Having spent over two hours writing up just the pathfinder part and researching online all the forums, posts, arguments, endless debates, designer double talk . . . I can finally say. What was wrong with 3.0?

I hate playing alone!

-- ~~ Part I ~~ -- All Alone

So I learned that nothing sucks more in life than owning a fuck ton of D&D rule books, accessories, mini's, maps, etc and having no one to play with.

I go on twitter and watch as the creators of D&D are busy setting up their live stream set for a gaming group to play the new Storm Giant's adventure released for 5th. Or on Facebook groups where D&D players are posting happy photos of their friends around the table having a blast being silly and playing D&D, but when I go to my game now (after 13 years) no one is there! Or even worse, only two people show up and we don't play. I just want to play D&D! It is sadly a game that depends on others to be there for you to have fun. You can't play alone!

I go home and sit there with my books and thoughts of what adventures we could go on or play and indstead twiddle my thumbs as I can't do that by myself. Uhhhhh frustrating. I watch Critical Role and write up adventures for no one since we aren't playing and again am watching others play.

I try to think up ways to do something that involves D&D alone. A podcast? A video on YouTube? Anything! Fuck, we played for 13 years and in this unlucky year the group falls apart and finding new people isn't easy. You would think finding players who are in the same boat, sitting there wanting to play but having no one to play with would be easy to find, but nope. Not to say 100% no one is available, but only complete city strangers might be interested. At this point I don't even care who they are, I just want people to play with, anyone will do! Getting desperate to player here.

So I think back to how this all started, and how I had to split the groups because people can't play together when they all want the same things. Which brings me to the second half of this blog, why can't anyone get along in D&D? What is it that EVERY game of D&D played by everyday people to rich famous actors all have the same problems of "fuck you, your a dick, I quit". Why does this happen?

-- ~~ Part II ~~ -- Why Can't We Get Along?

Getting along at a table is hard. Characters clash, don't like each other, or have conflicting views. Players clash, don't like each other, or have conflicting views. So how do get people to play together?

I find this is much different than all the articles in magazines and online that talk about dealing with a disruptive player at the table. Most of them are exactly the same and say "Just stop playing with this player." Ya well that doesn't work, it don't work because sometimes this person is a friend and should not be kicked out of the game, or the player might be someone I could do without, but then again I would be too low on players and it's too hard to find more and in truth they are not that bad.

There are lots of sides to blame in every argument that comes up:

The PC causing the argument has most likely taken a selfish action due to boredom, or done something that effects the way the other players are able to play their PC's.

The PC's are working on a discussion and another PC races in due to boredom and ruins things for everyone.

The PC has chosen a rogue or evil path, while the other players are good aligned or do not allow stealing or roguish actions.

A PC murders a NPC or something the others deem non-evil and believe should not have died.

A PC lords his strength or ability over another forcing him to do what he wants or face him in battle of which he will clearly die.

A PC uses his magic to force another PC to do what he want's and takes away his free will.

These are some of the issues that ALWAYS come up, no matter what, that pisses off a player and stops them from playing. A player has to be able to play their PC the way they wish, but this should not affect the rest of the way the groups plays their PC's.

 

So if all these issues arise, what also add's to driving people from the game?:

Player lectures other players at the table out of character asking why his/her character would do that?

Player at the table questions another players stats or abilities or spells and tells them to prove how they arrived at such an outcome.

A PC in game refuses to change their coarse of action even when presented with in game mechanics such as diplomacy or a good reason why they should stop.

A PC is seen as not trying or seen as sabotaging his party when he is just playing in character having fun, while the others are more insistent on "winning" the encounter.

There are no right or wrong answers for these situations, for even with a DM's hand a selfish player will continue to be selfish if he/she thinks everyone is now ganging up on them.

 

Examples from Critical role were when Percy was greedy and opened a trap that got Vax's sister killed (All PC's). He later went up to him to apologize and got punched in the face for his trouble. You would think this might piss him off as he was saying sorry for what he did, but character Vax could not accept this apology and thought Percy cocky and a know it all so smashed him in the face. Instead of pushing the situation Percy simply took the punch and said goodnight. From that Vax also said goodnight and the situation was over with that. It could have taken a more nasty turn, but both playing in character (one accepting the repercussions of his actions, the other playing the moody rogue who upholds his sisters health before any others.)

PC's can interact by hitting someone who was wrong and that player accepting it or feeling he/she did not deserve it, but they should never immediately say "They attacked me!" and go full force weapons out into attacking the other PC back. This is not what party members who have similar goals and have known each other for years would act in reality.

Another example would be when an evil magical item was a way for the party to solve a goal quickly and one player wanted to use it, while the rest of the party was worried about releasing the evil inside. The one PC defended it against the other players with his weapon out saying "Fuck it, I'm going to use it" against their wishes. While this player is in the wrong (believing his PC is doing what he would do). The others tried to persuade him before taking actions to get the evil item away from him for his own good. Though this upset him, he understood they were trying to get the item to keep him from releasing evil and took no actions against them once the items fate was finally put to rest by an NPC who arrived during the skirmish. He did not pursue it or break past anyone, ignoring the story to complete his task as a clear head told him it was a bad idea and the situation was over.

An example from our game was a new player had come in as a rogue who disarmed traps to join the party as they investigated a house. As they went into the house, the other players knocked him into a hole while screwing around and not allowing him to check the trap, only to have him fall through a deadly trap and die, catch on fire and dissolve in acid.

So with all this that can arise, how do we actually solve issues? So no one get's up and says "fuck it, I'm out."

-- ~~ Part III~~ -- How Do You Fix, Broken?

There is no answer for this, for each situation is different and requires it's own answer. If players do not like each other, they will come to blows no matter what. The only thing someone could do in this situation would be to see the larger picture and realize if they quit, they will have no game to play again. I would hope they would think or walk away before our right quitting.

Here are some examples of how somethings could be fixed:

Players learn to separate themselves from their characters

Players talk about the issues out of game and work through them

Players play with "teamwork" in mind, no matter the vice of personality flaw their character has that works again the group or other PC's.

Players don't drink at the table, if they realize it affects their behavior in a negative fashion

Players don't take an alignment or view in direct opposition of their party's

Players know when their PC has to take a backseat to the other players at the table and let things happen that they are not into, such as non combat exploration or diplomacy

Players learn to talk in character to each other to solve issues, not yell at each other at the table as players.

Players who are bored can work on their characters goals and fix their notes, etc while the other players are busy doing what their PC's want to do, instead of making issues of it

Players who don't like each other or clash, need to keep their PC's out of direct interaction in game or when it is needed, instead of being rude, treat the other players PC as they would a friendly NPC

Player complains openly at the table about not knowing why they are doing what they are doing. Instead should be asking in character and seeking answers to his/her questions to get answers that might be an adventure in it's self!

Player instead of stopping another player from doing an action, let's them do it then finds an interesting way to bring up why they shouldn't have done that or starts up a conversation about doing the wrong thing. This shows his characters values in game so others will learn of them

Players must realize their PC's are part of the story, the story isn't about their PC alone. Help everyone to get some stage time and have the light on them during the game.

Players should never do something to another character because they know they can get away with it. You have to realize the player at the table isn't having fun if your openly fucking with them. Instead realize this PC is on your PC's side and your buddies or at least after the same goal, if you wanna fuck with someone, fuck with NPC's and include the other PC's in your actions

Players need to understand the DM has the final say about a rule and should not openly argue at the table, but instead write it down and plan to bring it up later to get an answer

Players who are distracted by their phones, games, or other issues, should stand up and leave the room for a while. Everyone needs to be 100% focused on the game even if you are bored with the action happening at the moment, have that respect or take a break for the sake of the others

DM can end the session early and break out another game for the players to play until things can be settled out of game

DM can take clashing players and make their PC's use in game skills to diplomasize each other or talk it out to solve the issue.

DM, instead of questioning the player about his/her choice can make them roll a check if they are doing something he believes is out of character for that player.

DM can bring about divine karma to a players PC if he/she is running wild murdering NPC's or ruining things for others, making it clear that for every action there is a reaction

DM can suggest that the player think about his/her actions if they affect the rest of the party, before letting the action continue

 

There are no clear ways to fix this unless everyone wants to fix it and in the end when they are sitting at home having stopped everyone from playing by shrinking the group size, I think we can gather and talk things out and get the game back on track. Which, is the only thing that matters in the end, because without anyone to play with you can't play.

Alone forever, bored for life, not just for your turn in a game where you can have endless fun, for just a small investment in tolerating other people.

New books

A package arrives and it is time to build in another way.

Classes and Races to work with

Things to battle and fill our dungeons

and the world builder with new fresh ideas

Pathfinder story so far June 2016

Started off in the city of Ashura as the PC's join up as protectors of a Pathfinder's group. She leads them into a southern swamp towards a small town that houses a scroll of power. Here the town they visit is plagued with an undead menace and holds a family secret. The PC's right the wrongs here and end up recovering the scroll and ending the storm that came to this town.

Next the PC's visit the sister city of Rankin where a festival has just begun. The carnival is in town and the peoples sad spirits are lifted for a while. Here the PC's come across a kidnapping and get involved in rescuing a family of gypsies. During this time the PC's also make way to a wizards tower to recover another object of power called the orb of storms. They make way through the tower using tables and ladders until they steal the orb and flee back to the city. After some time exploring the corruption in Rankin the PC's decide to go back to Ashura and let their Pathfinder leader research these objects. 

 

From here they return to the city of Ashura where they are sent on a mission to the stars and land on a planet full of rotting technology. Battling a lunar dragon in space and taking a worm hole to a distant planet they land and find the near by city is having trouble as their forge (the soul source of their income) has gone out. The PC's delve beneath the mountain here to find a crashed ship and the reason why the forge had gone out. From here they save the city and make way back to their crashed ship where they then head for home.

Then the PC's return home to the city with new friends in tow. From here the Pathfinder leaves for a meeting and the PC's want to take on missions of their own. One of their expeditions lead them north in the winter and ends with them suffering frostbite, failure and a cave of vampires who capture some of their companions forcing them to find new allies to launch a rescue mission.

 

The PC's help a scholar investigate a temple that appears during storms and return with children, information and more. In this temple they find many gods from another plane in statue form and an intelligent ape who guards a statue of another god. They are stuck for a time on the astral plane and finally defeat a snake abomination that breaks the curse of the temple.

Next the PC's help an eastern woman investigate an ancient castle and go on a mission to reclaim her throne. They join up with her and her companions to find a family heirloom. During this adventure they make way north and defeat assassins until they free the eastern woman from her kidnappers.

The PC's now break off and head to an island where they recover an object of power from an abby and join a local guild.

New players for a new edition

Attention those near by (Windsor / Essex, Ontario Canada) we are looking for new players to add to our on going games. I am looking for 4 players to add to our 5th edition game and or our Pathfinder game. As the games are now split and some have dropped off, we need more to fill our ranks.

https://www.facebook.com/upmgaming/

Time: 5:30 - 10:00 pm, Sunday nights
Place: Windsor/Tecumseh/Essex (Must have car or ride to game)
Games: Pathfinder / 3.5 hybrid and 5th Edition game (alternating weekends.) Play one or both
Campaign: Home-brew over 14 years old this fall (2016). (Watch some: https://www.youtube.com/user/dean8880)
Looking for: Another four or so players for our weekly game
Expecations: Slight knowledge of the game (we can teach), own dice and players guide, ability to contribute snacks, non-competitive, friendly attitude, no rules lawyers )lax and house rules), able to deal with different personalities and respect each other, show up every week, ok with appearing on youtube.
Other info: Pathfinder is older crowd 30 yrs - 40 yrs, 5th Edition has players 20 yrs + all welcome.

The dark god syndrome

The dark god syndrome

So every book, movie, etc has the same plot or ending, the dark god is going to destroy the world unless the heroes stop him.

Harry Potter = Dark god; Lord of the rings = Dark god; All Feist books = Dark god, Star Wars = Dark god, Every comic book ever = Dark god, I had a list but I am writing from memory atm.

So basically ya, all the heroes go kill the dark god and the world is safe again. How not original, how not fun, how boring, how arrogant that one person thinks they can destroy the world. Not a country, not a state, not a town, but somehow the world. So every single rural town too right?

Now it's great to have a villain or an antagonist for the PC's to battle right? Sure, but to make him black and white? We have to start to think outside the box, to make a villain truly evil he has to have started somewhere, you need to see where that is, you need to come across events and become involved in a story and feel a need to strike back, to fight. Simply hearing a tale in a tavern is not cause for YOU to be the one to kill this 'dark god'.

It's not everyday you walk down the cobblestone road of the great city and hear “We need to stop the villain from destroying the world!” Oh no is the Lich King back again? Funny side story on that here too btw.

Let's take that warcraft example a bit further for a sec. I might get some wrong but stay with me here. So Lich King comes out right? Do the heroes get the mission “kill the lich king?” No they don't. They first get to explore all of Northrend with no goal or end game to speak of, just quest and story that “Ties in” with what will happen. Next it's off to Naxxramus to battle an evil lich lord as our Dark god who needs to die. Then after much story later, we go into the depths of “Ulduar” where the “Dark god” Yogg Saron needs to die, from here we do more story of a crusade who are holding a tournament to prepare to enter the lich kings castle where we learn more story and deeper immerse ourselves into why were after this guy, what he's done and why he needs to die. Finally we enter his lair and battle his minions to stop him from 'Dark godding' all over the lands even joining forces with our enemies to do so. Hmmm seems it wasn't a grand plan to just kill the villain after all, but there were stories, hundreds of them that needed to be told to prepare us for this end game (which isn't end game cause its a living breathing world, and there is lots more to come)

Let's take a look back if we can at some long running campaigns for this is about long running. We are not looking to wrap up level 1-20 in a few months, remember it took years before. To me it's about the journey, about fun and about the stories, the people we meet along the way, to race to “the end” makes no sense because the it is over. So back to our campaign, let's start back in the year 2002 at our friend Todd's house.

It was Me, Bill, Andy, Todd, Sylvia, Dean and maybe another (was long ago) and I came up with a plan for a campaign. It was a series of adventures set of time hoping to bring us from 1-20 and it all started with a simple ½ episode of Xena Warrior Princess.

In this episode Xena had stumbled across a dead man who held a clue to a vault of treasure and when she got the clue other started showing up with clues of their own. These men were evil and deserved death but she could not kill them for they had clues committed to memory and destroyed the physical clues to the vault which she needed to get into. So working with her enemies she suffered until they all got to the vault the betrayal happened and she saved the day.

Hmm interesting, but that was a half hour, how would this take us over three years real life time to accomplish in D&D. Well it wasn't telling the players “Hey the end game is a vault you need to get into to stop the dark god”. No it was far from it. The first part was easy, I killed them. Yep 100% dead, but here’s what didn't go to plan. One player decided he would out smart me and avoid the death via the game rules. Ok fine, but sorry I need you dead and I can't tell you why so we will play the rules. I did so and gave him a personal adventure while everyone sat and waited for him to finish showing off and die. It took about an hour when I finally got him. Once he was dead, the bitching started, if he was to die, why did we waste an hour and kill him if he was to be dead anyways?

It was because he didn't want to die and wanted to outsmart everyone else. Think of it as he wasn't told the end of the story so he didn't want to participate in the adventure written for everyone. Once he did die and quit the game we moved on and I am glad we did without him, for it was one of the best games we have ever played.

So with Andy dead and gone the players found themselves in the waiting area between planes waiting for their deities to come bring them to the after world, but someone else showed up. The goddess of FATE and gave them a decision, “I can return you to life if you bind yourself to a mission I have for you, or you can remain dead.” The PC's chose to take the mission and and return to life. They had no villain at this point, no “End game” just a quest.

• Seeking the Second Clue
• (The twelth adv/ played Dec 2003)
• Lauren Returns..
• (The Thirteenth adv/ played Jan 2004)

• Bill DM'S
• (The Fourteenth adv/ played Jan 14th/31st 2004 R.L.)

• The Underdark Unlocking The White Crow's Vault
• (The Fifteenth adv/ played Feb 7th- March 3rd 2004 R.L.)

• Drake DM's Into the east...
• (The Sixteenth adv/ played Apr 10th- May24th 2004 R.L.)

• A Detour in the Desert
• (The Seventeenth adv/ played May 24th- July 9th 2004 R.L.)

• The Black Sun
• (The Eighteenth adv/ played July 12th- July 31st 2004 R.L.)

• Who Invited Jenna?
• (The nineteenth adv/ played Aug 7th 2004 R.L.)

• A Favor For Morgan
• (The Twentith adv/ played Aug 14th - Aug 22nd 2004 R.L.)

• The Curse of the Pale Moon
• (The Twenty First adv/ played Aug 27th - Sept 6th 2004 R.L.)

• The Curse of the Pale Moon [Part II]
• (The Twenty Second adv/ played Sept 24th 2004 R.L.)

• Govac's Castle
• (The Twenty Third adv/ played Oct 1st- 23rd 2004 R.L.)

• ...and just then, everything went to darkness
• (The Twenty Fourth adv/ played Nov 4th 2004 R.L.)

• A Dwarf in Need [Drake DM's]
• (The Twenty Fifth adv/ played Nov 18th 2004 R.L.)

• The Princesses Spies
• (The Twenty Sixth adv/ played Dec 4th- Jan 2nd 2005 R.L.)

• The Valut of Eternal Knowledge
• (The Twenty Seventh adv/ Played Feb 2005)
  

Keep in mind these "adventures" were long games spanning months of play

Without finding notes from 2002 I can't tell you all the steps, but there were quests all over the land and they led eventually to clues. The clues hinted at a vault of the gods and the PC's figured out they needed to get there, but the clues were very vague and each hinted at how to open the vault one at a time. As the PC's gained clues, NPC's gained clues, including an assassin and a warlord who were evil and against the PC's but had to work together to help each other get to this vault, but for why they didn't know. They just knew it had to have something good in there.

As story lines came and went the PC's went on searching for clues, items, levels, and the like learning little bits of the over all story. Then they learned of the evil leader of Silver Lake named Gabrielle who was claiming to be a goddess and had sent her champion the red knight to claim the treasure in this vault as well who ended up with a clue.

As the PC's near epic level and the vault they see more and more pieces fall into place. Why is a so called goddess (Gabrielle) trying to get into this vault, couldn't she just use her power?

In the end the PC's enter the vault after trying everything possible to obtain the other clues from the villains and the villains trying to obtain the clues from the PC's. They work together and the betrayal happens as they find a treasure on the first floor. “The Kryton Key” A well known legendary artifact that was said to lock up the food of the gods “AMBROSIA”. Finally! After three years real time we learn we were sent into the vault that gods could not penetrate to destroy this dangerous artifact (Or use it). Anyone eating the food of the gods would become a god! That is why Lady Gabrielle was so worked up over entering the vault, if she could have her champion get the ambrosia she would attain real godhood and conquer the other kingdoms (Dark god reference), if one of the villains got it he would be a evil god, if the PC's destroy it for the goddess of fate they are the heroes, of if they betray each other one can be a god!

THIS ALL LEAD UP TO THIS! Godhood! Or stop the bad guys from being gods. And none of it, none of it was explained up front. I did not tell the PC's they had to enter the vault to stop others from becoming gods and that was their mission, I did not break all side adventures and quests and weaving of assassins they could not kill, warlords who hurt families and ruined lives, and a mad woman waging war from her city against other kingdoms who wanted ultimate power. They lived and breathed them all, they learned, they watched them unfold, they drove the story as they made decisions that protected the clue bearers and drove their goal closer. They did it for adventure to see what was the climax, what was in Roland's Dark Tower so to speak, they were on an adventure that lead to the ultimate prize the fantastic end goal, and not one of them knew a hint of it until they saw that “Key” in the treasure room, one floor away from the vault.

It was the greatest campaign I ever ran, a trill from start to finish over three years all based off a ½ show. It was not linear, it was not spelled out, it had no one clear villain to stop, it wasn't do this or the world will end. It was just an every day D&D quest that lead to further and further intrigue and adventure.

When you take notes, pay attention, stay off your phone, invest time into characters, story and gain personal enjoyment from the “moments” in D&D you see this. To this day Jeff can't stop talking about fooling Drake into thinking the airship was going to crash and accepting a “Teleport” spell which was actually a “mind rape” spell to allow him to steal Drakes clue. These are the moments that come from playing and exploring and investigating in D&D, you don't get these by being told who the end boss is or by ignoring the games subtitles and going straight to “The end”. Grinding levels to get to the finale isn't what the game is about, it's about Alice exploring Wonderland and finding weird situation after weird situation until she finally see's her goal and comes home having had a grand adventure.

While this adventure could have had a dark god, it wasn't about setting out to kill one or stop one in anyway. It was open, the ending could have had an NPC succeed or a PC succeed like Jeff tried to do when he turned on the party and tried to take the ambrosia for himself.

When I ask questions in a fun game at the start of a new game of Pathfinder and you say “No one is as invested in your world as you are, we don't know your characters, your lands, your world.” Then Drake proves everyone wrong and gets every answer right because he dose take notes, he is invested, he did pay attention for the last 14 years of gaming in the same world, they why can't you? It's a matter of putting phones away, taking notes, investigating, exploring, learning and playing in the world your given to play in.

I made a mistake a few times and listened to one player over others. We restarted over and over, new rule set after new rule set for this player because “I can't just drop into the middle of your adventure” or “There is no clear villain”, “I don't do mercenary quests” or even “I don't like the rules in this game, let's go to less rules”. This was a huge mistake to listen to one player over the others who were having fun and led to a splitting of the groups. After realizing I knew the rules better than this player about his character and watching him over and over try to abuse and use the rules wrong in his favor we even switched to a game with less rules where the first things were to find rules for abilities that aren't in the game instead of just role playing.

About mercenary quests, I have written an entire article about mercenary quests in D&D and why they are a huge part of it. Get hired, do a job, get paid, its in the damn DM's guide to do this! Each player is different, why yes some like gold as a motivator, others don't. D&D at core (All the greats say the same thing) is about slaying monsters and using their money to go shopping.

While everyone is different, I have to consider that article after article in dragon magazine, online, and in forums are correct. If one player can't get along with everyone it is time to stop playing with them. Now I don't like to do this unless it's a huge deal, but after finding no way to please this player I have to give up DM-ing and let someone else try to appease him and continue DM-ing in a separate group.

It's very sad to me to see this, that someone can't find the joy in the adventure. Can imagine the color of the leaves on the trees in a druids grove or the way an enemy would leap at them with a clumsy swing and have his dented blade hit a rock and gain another dent. Sometimes people one wait for their turn and roll dice for numbers on an attack. It's part of the game sure, even optimization is part, but if the wizard Alatar in this deep blue robes with white stars glued on and his funny upturned mustache don't make an impression as he's hiring you to rid his cellar of rats, then your not winning anything. It's about picturing his problem, taking his gold to get good stuff, and helping him with his problem, no dark god, no end game, no A to B, make up a fun way to do it and do it.

I can go on endlessly, I really can because I have something no one else does no matter how much they think they know more. 14 years experience with running D&D, I have encounter every situation and made every attempt to correct how things work. Why walled cities? Because when I had towns with problems, the PC's actually went to the city and had the guards take care of the problems (ya it happened) so the adventure to the goblin caves for the night was off the table. Why should the PC's risk their necks to kill goblins when the town guards can do it for them? Hmm good point guys, guess if the cities were walled and holding back hordes of demons then the guards would be occupied with that and unable to help every citizen with problems, now the PC's can shine.

But why don't you give us a quest with a main goal or end game and we just do that? Again I did, so say you have to go into the woods to recover a magical bucket and bring it to a wizard. Clear goal right? Not so much as you think. This is called a “Hook” and it's in every published adventure out there. The PC's are sent to do something they think and end up doing the real adventure. So in this case the PC's are sent to get the bucket but when they get there they find werewolves are attacking near by. (Here is why I don't do this now) the PC's grab the bucket and went back to town . . . yes they really did. Because that was their quest, they only did what they were told, it was their justification. Many times I went through this because this is how you use a hook in D&D. They are NOT there to get the bucket and there is no reward for the damn bucket, you are there on an adventure and when something comes up you explore it are involved and off on a quest or new theme.

Some new players are our table (good people, but new) aren't seeing this because I solved it. I don't use get the bucket for me, now I use check rumors in the woods of odd happenings and other vague references to peak interest that something is going on there they might want to find out about. So now they are confused, why can't we have clear goals, well this is why we solved it, you did and turned a blind eye to the entire game to do a clearly silly hook to get you into the story. Now we get you into the story you don't see coming by having you explore it.

Black and white or good and bad do not work in such lame terms. The adventure we had where the wolfwere's and the werewolves were battling and the PC's accidentally sided with the 'evil' party was memorable to see the looks on their faces when they realized they had helped the wrong side and that the wolfwere's were actually the good guys. I could never have given my players the memories of this that they talk about to this day if I said “Uh guys the werewolves are the villains.”

This is also another side note on why “Detect evil” doesn't work in a Ravenloft game. The game is mystery and suspense mixed with gothic horror, if you can use detect evil off the bad and find the villain at the start, the game is over. You haven't won, you've lost as you've ruined the adventure for yourself.

Constantly saying “I don't get it” or “I am lost” or “I don't know what to do or what my goal is” Isn't the DM's fault, it's your poor note taking, investigating or exploring skills. If your lost, it's because I need you lost and to find your way, if you don't understand, it's because your not meant to understand an alien mind of madness who is trying to drive you insane. Not knowing who the villain or 'dark god' is, is the fun of unraveling the plot to see! And no you can't 'get it' if you don't pay attention or keep notes on the game your playing. You can't put your phone down on your turn and roll dice and expect to catch the relationship between two people from different planes who have an intertwined destiny. You don't just shoot the goblins and realize the noble families have been poly morphed into goblins and you just slew them if your not exploring the plot and looking for some end game villain who did this to them.

The game is story telling for a reason and your the players who drive the story and change it. How could I possible write the ending or 'end game' to a tale you've wove by your actions? I always have and always will write the story around the players and their decisions, their interpretation of whats happening and not put in a “Dark god” for them to slay.

5th Edition / 4th Era

For YouTube and simplicity of rules we have switched to Dungeon's and Dragons 5th Edition in which the story, role playing and the DM's work load are easier managed, the PC's however are hindered to small abilities, and spells and not as many choices and builds as Pathfinder.

Pathfinder is a terrific game, but on film produces too many rules arguments and blank spaces of looking up rules and facts even after 13 years of gaming.


PC's for this game if you are following along on our YouTube channel:

• Alneiros - Wizard of chaos magic
• Francis - Paladin
• Geth -Barbarian
• Thyneris - Ranger
• Criella - Ranger
• Glim - Wizard of Necromancy
• Rose - Druid 

 We begin as the players have known each other for a few years in the city of Ashura. They get bad news from a guild that has discovered a dungeon below a mansion and learn it has something to do with Thanero's past.

They head off to find madness and hardship and eventually Thaneros falls in the darkness below the mansion. Later his sister Cryella takes up his cause as the party heads north to investigate what is happening with gnomish bards.

Winter is coming to an end, but still is trying to hold on, as some snow mixed with rain and muddy conditions are in our forecast.

Date is 571cy in the beginning of Spring as this adventure run's parallel with the Pathfinder game.

 

A idea for Rose (Elven Druid)